| [eskroni] | Have you all downloaded the presentation? Or need someone still the address for downloading the file? |
| [DanielC] | eskroni: it's in the channel topic :) |
| [eskroni] | But only the pdf (without the picture from Marko) :) |
| [DanielC] | oh |
| [DanielC] | http://oooauthors.org/de/rc/oooauthors.odp |
| [eskroni] | OK, Slide 1 |
| [eskroni] | Welcome to the presentation about OOoAuthors! |
| [eskroni] | I want to show, what OOoAuthors is, how OOoAuthors works and say something, why the German team joined OOoAuthors. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 2: A very short table of contents |
| [eskroni] | Some points, I want to say something about... |
| [eskroni] | Slide 3: Some words about the history of OOoAuthors: |
| [ericb2] | hi :-) |
| [eskroni] | In June 2003, Daniel joins the Documentation-project |
| [eskroni] | Hi Eric :) |
| [lgodard] | ericb2;chuuuuuut |
| [eskroni] | In October 2003, Daniel starts a "Starter Guide" |
| [eskroni] | In January 2004, OOoAuthors is born :) |
| [eskroni] | Between April 2004 and July 2004, the relationship between OOoAuthors and the OpenOffice.org-Documentation-Project was clarified. |
| [eskroni] | In September 2004 Jean and Janet, two professional writers, joined OOoAuthors |
| [eskroni] | In October 2004, the first chapters were posted at the OpenOffice.org-Documentation-Project |
| [eskroni] | In February 2005, the German team starts... :) |
| [Andre_S] | May in have a short question? |
| [eskroni] | yes :) |
| [Andre_S] | I rememebr OOoauthors started with the FAQ-Project |
| [Andre_S] | is this still going on? |
| [jeanw] | Yes |
| [Andre_S] | Ok, thanks :-) |
| [eskroni] | yes, you find the FAQ still on the website, and when you have some more question/answer-combinations, you can put it in...:) |
| [eskroni] | Slide 4: |
| [Andre_S] | Uhh .. I have a lot of answers .. and questions as well. But fail with the combination ;-) |
| [ain] | :) |
| [eskroni] | Aims of OOoAuthors: |
| [eskroni] | We want to write a high-quality documentation for OOoAuthors |
| [eskroni] | sorry, my mistake, a high-quality documentation for OpenOffice.org :) |
| [eskroni] | We want to provide tools, which simplify the work of authors and reviewers |
| [eskroni] | We want to provide an environment, which supports authors and reviewers |
| [eskroni] | We want to write documentation with the focus on clarity and ease of understanding |
| [eskroni] | We want to focus on the UserGuides and the FAQs |
| [eskroni] | We want a website, which is easy to use for advanced and new members |
| [eskroni] | Slide 5: people behind OOoAuthors |
| [GorkemCetin] | eskroni: If I'm allowed to ask, do you keep a statistic or have a feeling about which type of a document do users most benefit from? Long, printable user guides or short FAQs? |
| [DanielC] | GorkemCetin: Depends on the audience. New users, and users not familiar with FOSS are more likely to prefer a guide. |
| [jeanw] | Different people learn in different ways. |
| [ain] | lond documents are very needed, because there are many procedures not covered in online help |
| [DanielC] | It also depends on what you are looking for. |
| [ain] | the worst one are charts and math |
| [eskroni] | I don't know it at all. The long documents are additionally posted on the OO.o-website... |
| [jeanw] | Daniel's chapter on Math is brilliant! |
| [ain] | yes, I believe |
| [eskroni] | For me, I can say, I learn most with reviewing the existing chapters :) |
| [DanielC] | A lot of things just can't be explained in a FAQ. For example, you can't teach styles, master documents or templates using FAQs |
| [DanielC] | I prefer a guide because they can go much more in depth. |
| [ain] | btw, one question: why are caharts not separate chapter, but resides under calc? many people do not use calc at all, but they are using charts |
| [ain] | charts |
| [jeanw] | There is another chapter on charts. |
| [DanielC] | ain: I didn't know you could do charts without Calc. |
| [jeanw] | I forget where it is, though. |
| [DanielC] | Suggestion: how about we let Sigrid continue? :-) |
| [eskroni] | OK, back to the presentation: Slide 5: people behind OOoAuthors |
| [jeanw] | :-) |
| [DanielC] | :-) |
| [eskroni] | We want to introduce some active people of OOoAuthors: |
| [ain] | jeanw: thanks, I didnt see this under Common Guide |
| [eskroni] | The list isn't complete, but these are the "most active" members... |
| [eskroni] | Slide 6: |
| [eskroni] | Agnes is the founder of the French team at OOoAuthors. She also started in Februar 2005... |
| [eskroni] | sorry, German spelling: february 2005 :) |
| [eskroni] | Nicu is Co-Lead of the Romanian Native-lang-project. |
| [eskroni] | He is the main-reviewer for the romanian documentation and he's and advanced user of graphic software. |
| [eskroni] | He made our logo, that you can see on each page :) |
| [eskroni] | Slide 7: |
| [eskroni] | Daniel is one of the founders of OOoAuthors. |
| [eskroni] | (The other founders are CP Hennessy, Tim Kampa, Colin and Guido.) |
| [eskroni] | Daniel is mathematician and physicist. |
| [eskroni] | He's the maintainer of different chapters and also a good reviewer with the focus on "easy understanding". |
| [eskroni] | Sigrid: I'm now a student, I'm starting studying Microsystems Technology. |
| [eskroni] | In the last nearly 14 years I have worked as secretary in a engineering bureau. |
| [eskroni] | I'm doing translations from existing (English and French) chapters into German (and the other way). |
| [eskroni] | Slide 8: |
| [eskroni] | Peter is a teacher for physics on a high school in Illinois. |
| [eskroni] | Most of the time, he's working with Calc, he's also the maintainer of different Calc-guides. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 9: |
| [eskroni] | Marko is one of the authors of the German Installation-Guide for the OOo 2.0. |
| [eskroni] | And he's also one of the founders of the German-speaking team of OOoAuthors. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 10: |
| [eskroni] | Iain lives in Manchester, England, and is the owner of a company, specialized on OS Software. |
| [eskroni] | He's working with students, aged 15 – 17, in a project to contribute to OSS. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 11: |
| [eskroni] | Janet is one of our professional writers. |
| [eskroni] | She is our editor for the writer guide and helps to maintain the style guide and the OOoAuthors-website. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 12: |
| [eskroni] | Jean is our second professional writer. |
| [eskroni] | She lives in Australia, works with OOo and gives a lot of talks. |
| [DanielC] | jeanw: :-) |
| [eskroni] | jeanw: :) |
| [eskroni] | Linda is a freelance graphics designer, website developer and designer. |
| [eskroni] | Actually, she maintains different guides of OOoAuthors. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 13: |
| [eskroni] | Let me say, that we've tried first to organise the translations of the different guides with the help of IssueZilla. |
| [eskroni] | When you have a look at Issue 42931, you'll see, that there are different Issues linked / depending on our main issue. |
| [eskroni] | We have had problems in keeping a summary over all the different guides / chapters. |
| [eskroni] | For us, it wasn't easy to know, who is translating which chapter, which chapter should be reviewed. |
| [eskroni] | This was the most important reason for us to choose OOoAuthors as "working platform". |
| [eskroni] | Marko has set up an overview-page (http://ooauthors.org/de/authors), where everybody can fill in, which document he/she is translating, reviewing... :) |
| [eskroni] | Discussions within the German-speaking team are done with the help of our main issue or the German-speaking dev-list. |
| [eskroni] | We found, that OOoAuthors is easier for newcomers to use and it's better for collaborative work. |
| [eskroni] | The decision for OOoAuthors as our working-platform was a decision of the whole German-speaking team. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 14: |
| [eskroni] | Our start with OOoAuthors was very easy: |
| [eskroni] | Marko announced on the mailinglist, that a few people are interested in translating the different documents. |
| [eskroni] | Daniel granted him the author-role and created the de-folder. |
| [eskroni] | After having our own folder, we started to translate the documents and uploaded the documents for review. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 15: |
| [eskroni] | One of the biggest points at OOoAuthors is "ease of use" for new members. (in our opinion!) |
| [eskroni] | When you want to contribute it's easy for you to start: |
| [eskroni] | Just register at the website, subscribe to the authors@user-faq.openoffice.org-mailinglist, send a mail to the list with your login-name and ask for the author-role. |
| [eskroni] | When the author-role is granted to you, you'll be informed. |
| [eskroni] | We propose, that you start with reviewing existing chapters. |
| [DanielC] | if I'm on line the process takes about 40 seconds :-) |
| [eskroni] | Afterwards, you can write your own chapter. :) |
| [eskroni] | DanielC: :) |
| [eskroni] | Slide 16: |
| [eskroni] | When you are logged in, you can see on the left side the review-list. |
| [eskroni] | Pick one of the chapters, download it and change the status of the document to "retract". |
| [eskroni] | Send a mail to the mailinglist and inform the others, which chapter you are reviewing. |
| [eskroni] | When you've done your review, upload the document into the corresponding feedback-folder. |
| [eskroni] | Send again a mail to the mailinglist and inform the others, that you've finished the review. |
| [eskroni] | Now, the maintainer of the chapter can have a look at your changes. |
| [eskroni] | That's all... :) |
| [eskroni] | Slide 17: |
| [eskroni] | Why do I have to register once again? |
| [eskroni] | As you probably know, OOoAuthors is located on a different server. |
| [eskroni] | It's not possible to install Plone (the CMS which OOoAuthors uses) on the existing software infrastructure of CollabNet (as far as I know!). |
| [Andre_S] | (speaking of the technical side .. it might be possible) |
| [eskroni] | That was the answer, I received, when I have asked... :) |
| [Andre_S] | ;-) |
| [eskroni] | Is there a cooperation between OOoAuthors and the OpenOffice.org-Documentation-project? |
| [eskroni] | Yes. Most of the authors of OOoAuthors are also active members of the OpenOffice.org-project. |
| [eskroni] | Chapters are published simultanously on OOoAuthors and the OpenOffice.org-Documentation-project. |
| [jeanw] | That's one of my jobs, putting chapters on Docs at OOo. |
| [eskroni] | I can affirm, that we don't want to replace the documentation-project with OOoAuthors. |
| [eskroni] | We see ourselves as a "subproject" of the main OpenOffice.org-project. |
| [eskroni] | Slide 18: |
| [Andre_S] | mompl |
| [eskroni] | OK :) |
| [Andre_S] | .. seems, as there is some confusion about that |
| [Andre_S] | esp. within the francophone project |
| [Andre_S] | I just wanted to state, that speaking for the germanophone project, people who are working at OOoAuthors are as well workning within the germanophone project ,-) |
| [eskroni] | Thank you Andre_S :) That's right. |
| [eskroni] | OK, now to Slide 18: |
| [eskroni] | What license do OOoAuthors use? |
| [Loli] | hi |
| [eskroni] | OOoAuthors uses a dual-license: GPL and Creative Commons Attribution License. |
| [eskroni] | We chose these two licenses after a lot of discussions and a long time of deliberation. |
| [eskroni] | If you want to know more details about this decision, please check this site: http://oooauthors.org/authors-license.odt |
| [eskroni] | I can't tell you more about the details, because when we joined OOoAuthors, the decision for the licenses are already made. :) |
| [eskroni] | Slide 19: |
| [eskroni] | Thank you for your attention :) |
| [GorkemCetin] | :-) we thank you.. |
| [eskroni] | Are there any questions left? |
| [Andre_S] | Thanks! |
| [jeanw] | clap clap clap clap Good talk Sigrid! |
| [lgodard] | thanks |
| [jrahemipour] | Thank you, Sigrid! |
| [lgodard] | :) |
| [DanielC] | clap clap clap clap clap clap |
| [Mechtilde] | thanks Sigrid |
| [AgnesB] | Thanks Sigrid, it was great :-) |
| [AgnesB] | clap clap clap |
| [eskroni] | Thanks a lot :) |
| [eskroni] | No more questions? I have them already answered? I can't imagine... |
| [lgodard] | hum |
| [lgodard] | perharps |
| [lgodard] | one for me |
| [eskroni] | ok :) |
| [lgodard] | regarding licences |
| [lgodard] | what about the PDL licence whiche seems to be the OOo official one ? |
| [lgodard] | any in-compatibility ? |
| [lgodard] | to be mirrored on OOo documentation project ? |
| [ericb2] | thanks :-) |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: the creative commons attribution license is permitted by OOo |
| [lgodard] | recently yes |
| [Andre_S] | .. I like OOoAuthors .. but the decision about licenses is the on thing I really don't like :-( |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: The PDL is a "preferred" license. But the CC is allowed. |
| [lgodard] | a case study : |
| [Andre_S] | DanielC: for fixed contents - yes |
| [lgodard] | an 'old' document is under PDL, but translated at OOoAuthors |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Please read the page we wrote explaining this. The PDL was really hurting us. |
| [lgodard] | what is the licence ? |
| [Andre_S] | and fixed contents for a OpenSource documentation are .. nonsense |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: PDL I guess. |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: We don't mandate any license. |
| [Andre_S] | DanielC: it hurts, as you tried to be compatible with GPL and debian guidelines ... |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: The *user guide* of the *English* section chose something else. That is all. |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: That wasn't the only thing. |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Please read the document I wrote. |
| [Andre_S] | DanielC: but that means, that no translation under PDL can be done |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: being Debian-compatible is only one of about 6 criteria we wanted. |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: what are you talking about with translations? |
| [Andre_S] | you said english users guide is under GPL/CC |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: yes |
| [Andre_S] | so any translation needs to comply with this licenses |
| [DanielC] | yes |
| [Andre_S] | -> a translation cannot be under PDL |
| [DanielC] | I doubt it. |
| [Andre_S] | and that's the preferred license for OOo |
| [DanielC] | but the PDL is confusing. |
| [DanielC] | Ok, I see what you mean. |
| [Andre_S] | As well as GLP for documentation |
| [Andre_S] | GLP -> GPL |
| [lgodard] | i think the equiv. of GPL for documentation is GFDL, no ? |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: Not really. There are several problems with the GFDL. |
| [Andre_S] | the very sad sad thing about OOoAuthors licenses is, that OOo is writing documentations for OOo but didn't chosse the license, that is the one of choiuce for the project |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: But that license was really hurting us. |
| [Andre_S] | who is "us"? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: It's very hard to comply with unless you're using CVS. (us == the writers and editors) |
| [Andre_S] | th non-PDL is hurting the OOo project |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: It's also very uncertain as to whether you are using it right. |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: There is no reason why you couldn't use a creative commons attribution license. This is a very lenient license, it allows almost anything. |
| [Andre_S] | :-) and you are shure, you are using GPL correctly on documents? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Yes. |
| [lgodard] | i do not uderstand the CVS stuff. It is a way, a tool such as PLone, not a licencing poicy |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: The GPL is a fairly straight forward license. |
| [lgodard] | policy |
| [Andre_S] | lgodard: you need to track any change on your documents, when using PDL |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: The PDL requires you to keep a complete track of all changes made to a document. This is very difficult to use. But it has a clause that says you can also use CVS instead. |
| [Andre_S] | .. that's easy with cvs, but difficult with plone |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: It's difficult with anything that is not CVS or CVS-Like. |
| [lgodard] | and what about OOo revison and version tools ? |
| [lgodard] | but i think i caught your point |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: I don't know if those would do. That's precisely one of the problems with the PDL. It's hard to know if the way you are using it will be satisfactory. And we were getting afraid we'd have problems later. |
| [lgodard] | ok |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: And there was another license available that was allowed by OOo. Personally, I was very surprised that people complained about the change, considering that it had been discussed publically for so long. |
| [Andre_S] | what is "publically"? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: public mailing list. |
| [lgodard] | Daniel: i do not complain, just tryto understand. But i will have to read the docuement that was given |
| [Andre_S] | oh .. i can setup a mailing list on my computer and make it public ... |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: Thanks. Sorry if I got defensivef, I didn't mean to. |
| [Andre_S] | what mailing list? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Authors list of course, what else? |
| [Andre_S] | documentation lists and community council |
| [lgodard] | for me, i just see some potential problems with existing documentation but really need to go deeper |
| [lgodard] | so "the end' for me :) |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: the documentation leads are on the authors list. |
| [Andre_S] | You claim to write documentation for the OOo-Project |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: as are several community council members. |
| [Andre_S] | so the project needs to be involved in such questions |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Look, we picked a license that was permitted within the OOo structure. And as it was, the discussion took probably 6 weeks. |
| [Andre_S] | Ok .. decision ist taken ... |
| [Andre_S] | I don't need to like it. |
| [Andre_S] | but I'd accept it |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Nope. And I won't bug you if you pick a different license. You are free to do what you feel is best. |
| [Andre_S] | Daniel: I *cannot* pick another license, if i'd like to translate the english users guide |
| [Andre_S] | but I'd like to, as i'd like to publish suh a translation on the germanophone projects website under the project's preffered licence for edidable content |
| [Andre_S] | hmm.. well .. maybe I'm a little too "upset" here |
| [Andre_S] | ... but we had this problem with GNu FDL documents a long time ago |
| [eskroni] | Andre_S: Which problems with the FDL? |
| [Andre_S] | .. or better with FDL and project guidelines |
| [Andre_S] | When PDL was introduced, we had a guide on writer translated by 95% |
| [Andre_S] | .. but the original was under FDL |
| [Andre_S] | so it could not be published at the OOo website |
| [Andre_S] | (you may imagine, that I was not that happy about the PDL-guideline at this time .. as well as I am now about not using PDL for OOo documentation) |
| [eskroni] | yes, I can imagine this... |
| [DanielC] | sorry, I was distracted |
| [DanielC] | I had to talk with Ian. |
| [eskroni] | No problem :) |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: The creative commons guide can be published on the OOo documentation project, and in fact, it *is* there. |
| [Andre_S] | where? |
| [DanielC] | http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/ |
| [Andre_S] | it's PDF |
| [Andre_S] | -non editable |
| [Andre_S] | and no link, where you can get teh editable doc |
| [DanielC] | You can download the editable ones from an IZ issue (I forget where it is). |
| [DanielC] | Would you be happier if there was a link to where you can get editable docs? |
| [Andre_S] | Yepp ;-) |
| [DanielC] | Jeanw: could you do that? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Jean mantains this page. She can accomodate this easily. |
| [DanielC] | Okay, I'm not sure about the "easily" part. But we can make it happen. |
| [Andre_S] | Okay |
| [Andre_S] | I'll see, ho we could do the same at the germanophone pages |
| [DanielC] | I'm glad we found something to make things better :-) |
| [Andre_S] | ... but first, we need content, ready to publish ,-) |
| [DanielC] | We're working on it :-) |
| [Andre_S] | Yes .. and after all, that's the important point |
| [DanielC] | :-) |
| [DanielC] | No matter, I'll email Jean today. |
| [eskroni] | Jean said, that she had to go for dinner... :) |
| [jeanw] | back. Sorry, I was eating dinner. :-) |
| [jeanw] | Links to editable docs... yes I can do that. |
| [DanielC] | jeanw: thank you. |
| [jeanw] | What exactly is it you want a link to? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S? |
| [lgodard] | i would say all |
| [jeanw] | All the chapters of the User Guides? Or something else? |
| [lgodard] | if given as PDF, should also be given as editable |
| [jeanw] | Right now I don't have the User Guide chapters individually linked, just a general link to OOoAuthors for the editable guides. |
| [jeanw] | I was going to put in individual links when the "final" versions of the V2 chapters are published. What's there now are draft chapters. |
| [jeanw] | If it's important enough, I can try to find time to put in the links to the draft chapters now. |
| [DanielC] | If I could get an SSH tunnel to work I'd offer to help. But... |
| [jeanw] | It's not difficult, just time-consuming. |
| [DanielC] | when it works it's not difficult. |
| [DanielC] | it's not working for me at all. |
| [DanielC] | I can't get a tunnel. |
| [Andre_S] | sorry .. have been away for a phone call |
| [Andre_S] | I don't think, you need to link each single document |
| [Andre_S] | .. should be enough to state, that editable formats are available at OOoauthors and how to find them |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: But that is *already* the case. |
| [Andre_S] | hmmm ... is it? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: That link has been there forever. |
| [DanielC] | yes. |
| [jeanw] | Let me check... |
| [DanielC] | At the very top, right below the title "OOoAuthors Guides" |
| [DanielC] | I'm looking at it right now. |
| [Andre_S] | This tells nothing about editable formats and not, how to find the doc you need |
| [DanielC] | Okay, this can be fixed. |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: what do you think it should say? |
| [jeanw] | Andre is right, the link is only to the website. That's easy to fix, to point to the right directory. |
| [jeanw] | I have a place for published chapters on the OOoAuthors website, so I'll point it there. |
| [jeanw] | I was thinking the other day that I should do that, but I had not got around to doing it. |
| [jeanw] | So this is a good reminder. :-) |
| [khirano] | eskroni: excuse me :), may I ask a question about i42931? (it's in German) :) |
| [Andre_S] | :-) |
| [jeanw] | I'll fix it in the next few hours, if CVS cooperates. :-) |
| [eskroni] | yes :) |
| [khirano] | U"bersetzung der Dokumentation von OOo-Authors |
| [khirano] | What does this mean? |
| [eskroni] | This means "translation of the documents from OOoAuthors" :) |
| [khirano] | eskroni: i see, thanks :) |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: Btw, I *thought* that the link pointed to the published chapters. My mistake. |
| [jeanw] | On the V2 manuals page, the link *is* to the published chapters. |
| [Andre_S] | no problem |
| [jeanw] | The one on the main manuals page isn't. My mistake. |
| [jeanw] | Daniel and I were looking at different pages. :-) |
| [Andre_S] | ah .. now I see |
| [Andre_S] | Well .. I have to leave. |
| [DanielC] | where's the V2 manuals page? |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: thank you for comming |
| [jeanw] | http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/oooauthors2/index.html |
| [DanielC] | Andre_S: And I'm glad we could find a way to make things better. |
| [DanielC] | jeanw: thanks |
| [Andre_S] | So goddbye to everyone (I'll stay on the channel, but will be away) |
| [DanielC] | jeanw: how do you find this page from the Docs front page? |
| [jeanw] | Click on Manuals, which takes you to the main manuals page, http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/index.html |
| [DanielC] | yes |
| [jeanw] | That page lists guides for both V1 and V2, with a link that at the moment says "List of chapters" under the OOoAuthors Guides for OOo2.0 |
| [jeanw] | I've been thinking how to improve on that, but hadn't got around to doing anything. |
| [DanielC] | ok, thanks |
| [jeanw] | Ah, I see I did change the word "Manuals" to "User Guides" on the main Docs page. :-) |
| [jeanw] | Seems like it's time to divide that into "User Guides for V1" and "User Guides for V2"... |
| [jeanw] | One less click to get to the V2 guides. |
| [DanielC] | I think so too. |
| [jeanw] | Sigrid, I really enjoyed your talk. |
| [eskroni] | Thank you Jean :) |
| [cph_] | hi all |
| [jeanw] | You just missed Sigrid's talk on OOoAuthors :-) |
| [DanielC] | hi cph_ ! |
| [lgodard] | i've to go, thanks all for all this discussion and thanks to eskroni for the presentation |
| [jeanw] | Thanks for holding this talk at a good time for me in Australia. :-) |
| [DanielC] | lgodard: thank you for comming! |