IRC Conference log

INREACH, building an active community
by Daniel Carrera
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[DanielC] Ok, I guess we can start.
[DanielC] We'll keep this pretty informal, and see how it goes.
[DanielC] This is our first talk, so we're experimenting.
[DanielC] Title: INREACH, Building an Active Community
[DanielC] The talk is short, only about 10min or so.
[DanielC] After the 10min we can Q's and A's and then "just chat".
[DanielC] So, let's go to Slide #2
[DanielC] Slide #2: What is INREACH ?
[DanielC] INREACH is a cute term.
[DanielC] We've heard the term "outreach"
[DanielC] everyone talks about "outreach"
[DanielC] "outreach" means reaching people *outside* the community.
[DanielC] "inreach" means reaching people *inside* the community.
[DanielC] I am dividing INREACH in two main steps.
[DanielC] First, Getting an inactive member to become active.
[DanielC] When I say "inactive member" I'm talking about people subscribed to lists, forums, etc
[DanielC] but who are not currently working on any project.
[DanielC] And second, to "nurture" an active member to become self driven.
[DanielC] Soon you'll learn why I chose the word "nurture".
[DanielC] An "active member" is everyone who is contributing.
[DanielC] A "self driven" member are those are not just contributing,
[DanielC] but go out looking for things to do,
[DanielC] and do them
[DanielC] they are the ones that come up with an idea, and then do the work.
[DanielC] I'm sure you've met people like that :-)
[DanielC] The ideal is for members to become self-driven.
[DanielC] So let's move on to the next slide.
[DeerBear] hello :D
[DeerBear] Andrea Raimondi here
[DeerBear] hi Daniel
[DanielC] Slide #3: Crossing the bridge
[DanielC] The first step of this process is encouraging an inactive volunteer to become active.
[DanielC] this step feels like crossing a bridge.
[DanielC] Or like climbing a wall.
[DanielC] Think back to the first time you started with open source.
[DanielC] It was like a barrier.
[DanielC] You had to take a step.
[DanielC] It's not an easy thing, to volunteer for a task.
[DanielC] Well, the first thing we need to do is *Inform* people of what needs to be done.
[DanielC] This is a pretty obvious step, but you'd be surprised how often people forget.
[DanielC] We need to keep people informed about what projects are available
[DanielC] what volunteers we need, etc.
[DanielC] Next, we need to *reach* volunteers.
[DanielC] what do I mean by this?
[DanielC] what I mean is that you actually go to where the volunteer is,
[DanielC] talk to the volunteer directly.
[DanielC] make a specific suggestion.
[DanielC] Last week I talked to Alexandro.
[DanielC] I said, "Alexandro, I want to start some IRC conferences"
[DanielC] "would you like to give a talk?"
[DanielC] Alexandro said "sure".
[DanielC] That's what I mean by "reach".
[DanielC] And the last step is "enthuse"
[DeerBear] Daniel, the biggest problem I see with getting involved with open-source projects is that many people live the uncertainity about their working position
[DanielC] DeerBear: Remind me to ask you about that as soon as I finish (I won't be long)
[DeerBear] ok :D
[DeerBear] sorry
[DanielC] :-)
[DanielC] oh, no worries!
[DanielC] If I had a quick answer for that, I'd have given it to you :-)
[DanielC] now, "enthuse"
[DanielC] Tell the volunteer why this project is exciting,
[DanielC] why it's interesting.
[DanielC] If it's not interesting, tell them why its important.
[DanielC] We are dealing with volunteers.
[DanielC] People work on things that they find interesting.
[DanielC] Or where they feel their work is valued.
[DanielC] so that's important.
[DanielC] next slide.
[DanielC] Slide #4: Nurturing: Skills / Direction
[DanielC] Now we are on the next stage.
[DanielC] You have a volunteer
[DanielC] someone just came to you and said "I want to help".
[DanielC] What do you do?
[DanielC] Now comes the process of "nurturing" the volunteer into becoming self-driven.
[DanielC] This isn't like climbing a wall, or crossing a bridge.
[DanielC] this is a process, and it takes time.
[DanielC] The first thing we need to be aware of, is what happens to the skill level and how you should respond.
[DanielC] When the volunteer first comes in, they are totally new to the project.
[DanielC] they don't know how things work, or where to begin.
[DanielC] Suppose you just joined a new project.
[DanielC] You're feeling lost.
[DanielC] There is nothing more frustrating, than having the group say "just do whatever".
[DanielC] You want something more specific.
[DanielC] people who just joined a project usually need and want more guidance.
[DanielC] take them by the hand more.
[DanielC] now, fast forward into the future.
[DanielC] you've been on this project for 18 months.
[DanielC] you know how everything works.
[DanielC] you know hwo to do things, and you're good at it.
[DanielC] There is nothing more frustrating, than having the lead trying to run everything.
[DanielC] this is not the time for "micro-management".
[DanielC] therefore,
[DanielC] there isn't a single ammount of direction you should give.
[DanielC] you have to make the direction correspond to how much the volunteer needs, and wants.
[DanielC] Next slide (last)
[DanielC] Slide #5: Nurturing: Motivation / Support
[DanielC] While the volunteer skills are improving, there is another process going on.
[DanielC] And that's how the volunteer feels about the project.
[DanielC] When a person joins the project, they are eager to work.
[DanielC] But inevitably, they hit Murphy's law.
[DanielC] Murphy says: Nothing is ever as easy as you expect.
[DanielC] "Everthing takes longer than you thought"
[DanielC] This is inevitable.
[DanielC] But when it happens,the volunteer gets discouraged.
[DanielC] At this point, we have to be there for the new volunteer.
[DanielC] Help the volunteer see the progress that's been made.
[DanielC] Help the volunteer see the contributions, and that they are appreciated.
[DanielC] So, it is during this "down" period that you have to focus on being encouraging.
[DanielC] The good news is, this period doesn't last forever.
[DanielC] At one point the volunteer will get through, if they stick with it.
[DanielC] when they gain enough skill, they will start to see their contributions making a difference.
[DanielC] and then their motivation will come back up.
[DanielC] If they make it to the end,
[DanielC] you will have a volunteer,
[DanielC] that is both high in skill, and high in motivation.
[DanielC] And *that* is going to be a "self-driven" volunteer.
[DanielC]
[DanielC] :-)
[DanielC] That wasn't too long.... :-)
[JZA] nope
[DanielC] Okay, let's chat.
[DeerBear] sorry for the earlier interruption
[JZA] :)
[DanielC] DeerBear: no worries!
[DeerBear] I just felt pushed to speak
[DeerBear] because that's how I feel about open source projects
[DanielC] DeerBear: that's good. So let's speak
[JZA] Q: How you think we can have a comprenhensive ToDo. Most users want a human approach as opposed to a document. Also the volunteers can vary on their skillset, so we need some member that can evaluate his skills and draw the best path.
[AgnesB] DanielC,good job :-D
[DanielC] JZA: A ToDo is part of what I called "Inform". And like you said, it's not enough.
[AietKolkhi] Thanks DanielC, that was very nice and informative
[DanielC] JZA: The "human approach" is curical. That's the "reach" prt.
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: :-D
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Glad you liked it.
[JZA] DanielC: is there any proposal of a mechanism that we can improve this process in OOo?
[DanielC] JZA: A mechanism would be hard to come up with.
[DeerBear] ok, I'm going to explain what I feel on my side, maybe it's just me, maybe it's not
[DanielC] It's hard to mechanize a "human approach"
[DanielC] DeerBear: Go ahead, please.
[DeerBear] you can't, imho, mechanize a human appoach
[DeerBear] ok, I'm turning 28 in few months
[DeerBear] I don't have a stable job setting me economically independent
[DeerBear] this poses me with a question: contribute to an OpenSource project or try and find a job for me?
[DeerBear] the answer is obvious, imho
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: Would it be better if there was someone at Natie-Lang that after the leads welcome a new project, he or she should work with the new peoject lead to help him/her on all the basic steps that involves glossary creation, website development, amiling list setup, getting locale and other onformation etc?
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: That sounds like a good idea.
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Ilike it.
[DanielC] DeerBear: Yes, I understand your point.
[DanielC] DeerBear: Sadly, I'm not sure we can do much about it ;(
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: I don't think you need a formal system though.
[DeerBear] I'm not obviously implying that Sun should hire me :D
[JZA] DeerBear: I think that this only represent a benefit if there is a lot of people doing business with OOo and you can get a job as a OOo developer, or a solution integrator based on OOo
[sophie_] AieKolkhi : we are available for that, just ask
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: This is something that can be done by anyone. I have been doing it long before I had any official role at OOo.
[JZA] DeerBear: this is what is happening with Linux right now
[sophie_] and we will help the better we can :)
[DeerBear] but I'm trying to say that if I could gain exposure, for example, for some of my works(a link? a page? tech help?whatever?)
[AietKolkhi] sopehie_: thanks :-)
[sophie_] DeerBear : helping will give you visibility and you will be known trhough a community
[JZA] Q: Pointing to OOo, is there a better way to contribute in source cast. Since the app allows to few interactivity, away from posting files as issues. (no news reporting, no collaborative documentation (unless is easier to access the cvs).)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Keep me posted, I want to follow up on this (dcarrera@openoffice.org)
[DeerBear] sophie_, that's all good in theory
[sophie_] your knowing will be exposed and will serve or diserve yourself ;)
[DeerBear] but in practice...
[sophie_] not only in theory, it often happen that devs for example find work,
[DeerBear] an extreme example: say that you have to do an OOo personalization
[DanielC] DeerBear: How about the contributors page ?
[cdriga] DeerBear: keep also a Blog where you link to all you did in the community too ;-)
[sophie_] because company can see there work
[willysr] sorry to interupt, but i must leave this chat and do my final project reports. Thanks for the good presentation, Daniel.
[willysr] good bye all
[DeerBear] would you give it to a new entry or to Daniel Carrera? :D
[DanielC] willysr: thank you for comming!
[sophie_] DanielC : there is a contributor page on OOo site
[DanielC] cdriga: that was a good idea.
[DeerBear] yes, sure, sophie_, but that happens after *years*
[DeerBear] I don't have "years"
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: thanks. I will. I recently submitted a new level1 proposal a Georgian native-lang project and also have seen other people proposing new languages on Native-Lang mailing list, but the most of them seem to be having little experience in OOo projects and maybe are too shy to ask :)
[DeerBear] I'm old
[DanielC] sophie_: Yes, that's what I meant. My name is on it :-)
[DeerBear] I mean, old to play :D
[sophie_] no, I have several example in FR community where people found work during the year
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: In my experience, people are often shy to ask. :-)
[AietKolkhi] So if somone could just write to them directly, saying "HI, you will need to do theese stpes an I am here to help you woth theese" :)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Exactly!
[DeerBear] I'm unsure if I'm hitting the target I mean
[DeerBear] Here in Italy it's *very* difficult to find an IT job
[DeerBear] but working abroad isn't easy too
[JZA] On the spanish community we have some sub-communities that have been going their own way to integrate their solutions. For example a new OOo localization for Kiche (Mayan Language) was presented this week. The organization is based in Guatemala and the project is backed up by Rigoberta Menchu Foundation. However it has been hard to integrate in a solid project with the greater ES community.
[sophie_] DeerBear : do you make confs ? do you develop for the community, what I mean is that your name need to be visible on the net
[DeerBear] I'm a reasonably good programmer(there's loads of better developers than me) and I usually release free software, mainly for developers
[DeerBear] 99% of the time with sources
[sophie_] JZA : what was has, could you give more details please
[DanielC] DeerBear: What do you do in the Italian NL ?
[DeerBear] NL = Native Language?
[DanielC] yes :-)
[sophie_] DeerBear : where can people see what you have done ? the fact is to be able to see you "at work" :)
[DeerBear] I mostly develop soft in English
[DeerBear] not Italian
[sophie_] JZA : sorry, what was hard ?
[DanielC] DeerBear: But in the Italian NL, what's your contribution ?
[JZA] sophie_: getting people to use the CVS
[DanielC] CVS can be intimidating.
[DanielC] Even for otherwise computer-savvy people.
[DeerBear] My only actual contribution to OOo is using it everyday and spreading the voice about it
[JZA] sophie_: a lot of jewels of information are lost on the hordes of mailing lists
[diane] I think CVS could be made less intimidating if we were to present it differently.
[sophie_] JZA : could we help ? can we do some mentoring, or is it really the technology that is not accepted ?
[DeerBear] I don't contribute in NL because I feel that OOo is just overwhelming and am unsure what I could do
[DanielC] DeerBear: If you contribute something to a project that you can "show" to people, you can give an IRC talk to show it.
[diane] CVS is full of technical terms that don't mean much until you understand what they are.
[DeerBear] like what?
[DanielC] DeerBear: That'll also put your name on the conf website.
[DanielC] DeerBear: Good question. :-)
[DeerBear] what's not in OOo that I can do and is not being actually done by anyone else?
[JZA] sophie_: in SourceCast topic is the technology, but the human resources is usually a great barrier, for example the ES community has picked up really good lately, but I know that many people on the community could do much more if they didn't require so much tech knowledge to publish content
[diane] CVS and SSH require few simple steps, but we pump MUCH background info at folks, which may be more intimidating than it needs to be.
[DanielC] DeerBear: code-wise you can contribute plugins, or you can write documentation for example.
[DanielC] diane: Yes, presentation makes a big difference.
[DeerBear] CVS and ssh are fairly easy to use once you grasp the basic concepts
[DanielC] DeerBear: Well... the same thing can be said about Quantum Field Theory.
[sophie_] Diane : ++1 I completly agree with you
[diane] DeerBear: I think so too.
[JZA] sophie_: on the Mayan language project the hardest part is finding the information in OOo page. Sometimes we know is there, we just don't have an easy way to find it.
[AietKolkhi] Just a short note on the subject we discussed above: The main issue when starting a new natlang project is the lack of having a local glossary. OOo already did a very good job in producing a glossary of terms used in OOo. Another nice step would be to create an online tool that would enable the new language projects to invite language and other IT experts to participate in the glossary localization, allowing the participants to merely register
[DanielC] Most things can be "easy once you learn them". But if the learning is hard, you're still in a bad position.
[AietKolkhi] ...log in to the system ad submit the suggested terms and comment on other suggestions :)
[DeerBear] admittedly, the latter involves a bit more "background" knowledge than the former
[AietKolkhi] sorry for the long text
[sophie_] AietKolkhi : this is about l10n, not native langu project
[diane] DanielC: I don't think the learning needs to be hard. Its a few simple steps. We need to simplify the learning process.
[AietKolkhi] I programmed a module like this for Georgian natlang project and I know someone has done similar it for other nativelang project
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Take a look at this project: http://irma.linspire.com/
[diane] Maybe putting the process into more simple terms, less tech jargon, would help.
[diane] When you cannot define a word, it's hard to make sense of the sentence.
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: allright
[sophie_] JZA : in that case, just ask directly to people like me, Charles or the one you choose, we never refuse to help people direclty and we understand that can be difficult,
[DanielC] diane: maybe you're right.
[diane] I know I am. I have taught a tech how to use an oscilloscope for the first time during a phone conversaion.
[DanielC] diane: I didn't mean to refer to CVS specifically. I was refuting the general argument that "it's easy once you learn it". The "once you learn it" part can be a barrier.
[diane] They told me it could not be done.
[AietKolkhi] sophie_: yes, you are right. but I guess the first step in nativelang prject is l10n and thats where everybody seems to be having problems
[sophie_] we are available to every body that is needing help, may be we don't tell us enough, or speak louder enough :)
[DeerBear] uhm... I could write a paper on how CVS works and what SSH is, I used to write articles for magazines
[diane] Oscilloscopes are hard. But I did it, and we got the measurement we needed from the customer to move the work fwd.
[DeerBear] we could do them in OOo native format
[DanielC] diane: I am hesitant to say that any given tool is easy if you just teach it right.
[DanielC] diane: I don't mean anything bad about CVS.
[diane] DanielC: I am talking about simplifying the learning process...
[JZA] DanielC: How does OOo measure against the open source the mantra 'release early, release often'?
[JZA] sophie_: I will remember that the next time I meet the guys from the Mayan Project
[DeerBear] Daniel, if I interpret correctly what diane's saying, I'd say that speaking of a box with two locks is farily easier than speaking of two primary numbers combined in mathematically unreversable function
[sophie_] AietKolkhi : ok, so how can we solve this ? I feel that a glossary belong to a language community, how could we share more in term of experience ?
[DanielC] DeerBear, AietKolkhi, diane: How about an "IRC conf" to show people how to go use CVS ?
[diane] I think maybe we have too much info on CVS and SSH available. :) Maybe that is part of what makes it inundating at first glance.
[DanielC] DeerBear, AietKolkhi, diane: Include a trouble shooting section. Help people get setup.
[JZA] DanielC: I think that would be better because is a practical knowledge
[DanielC] diane: I agree with you 100%. CVS is definitely not half has hard as OOo makes it look.
[AietKolkhi] danielC I think that would be nice and it's not really hard to cope with cvs
[JZA] sophie_: from a developer point of view we lack a lot of documentation of the actual development of OOo
[diane] DanielC: I'm sorry to say this, but you spouting about it's difficulty is influential upon the community too.
[JZA] oops, didnt mean to be sophie_ :D
[JZA] Is there a way we can also enhance developers to the community?
[sophie_] JZA : no, the doc don't lack but you don't know where to find it ;)
[DeerBear] how about an "OpenOffice Contributor Central" application that new volunteers can use to perform basic tasks to help contributing?
[cdriga] DanielC: How about a visual tutorial like a slideshow.... created for the most common CVS programs instead a full text page ? Confs are good...but such tutorials with screenshots once online may help better
[DanielC] diane: Do you like the IRC hands-on session I just suggested? Would you be willing to participate?
[JZA] sophie_: well I know that everyone poiint to the development guide... is HUGE and many developers get frustrated because is beyond their skillset
[DeerBear] such as connecting to CVS, submittng some material and so on?
[sophie_] cdriga : this is what Guy Capra does for my first steps on cvs and ssh : this is a great idea :)
[DanielC] diane: If you, DeerBear and AietKolkhi are all there, you can probably get pretty much anyone started.
[JZA] For example X guy likes python, he wants to write a module, but regardless of the technical restrictions of python in OOo there are only 3 documents regarding to python in the whole OOo site.
[DanielC] cdriga: That's a good thought.
[JZA] and 1 is the same, just translated
[AietKolkhi] I liked Fedora CVS tutorial. It was done for windows platforms using tortiseCVs, but the same can be done for open platforms
[DanielC] cdriga: How about having those made, and *then* a conf. For trouble-shooting purposes ?
[sophie_] JZA : the dev guide is not the only dev documentation you found on the site, do you ever look to the dev tab on the top of the page ?
[cdriga] DanielC: that's even better
[DeerBear] JZA: another thing could be letting people write the bulk code and then let some more experienced contributor to actually integrate it in OOo
[JZA] sophie_: yeah I did, I translate the whole page actually to the ES project
[sophie_] JZA : do you have a dev guru in you native-lang project ?
[diane] cdriga: a visual tutorial might be an excellent idea. I have read that most people learn visually.
[DeerBear] I've experience making video
[DeerBear] videos
[DanielC] diane, cdriga: If we just get *clear* and *accurate* instructions, that alone would be a major improvement.
[DeerBear] video-tutorials
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: Regarding the URL. I took a look and it seems like a linux distribution that has created an online l10n environment. But I guess onlin env should only be used for glossary collaboration, not for the actual trasnaltion?
[JZA] sophie_: I have developers who want to contribute but get lost in the page sometimes. For me this was a great experience: http://development.openoffice.org/digest/cvs48c.html
[JZA] DeerBear: Video tutorials are always great?
[DeerBear] when I made one for a Delphi-related technology, someone said it was awsome
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: It's a Linspire tool for translating .po files. Now that you mentioned it, it just dawned on me that glossaries aren't .po files... Oh well.
[DeerBear] but that was one opinion :D
[AietKolkhi] DeerBear I am not sure if we need to go that far to offer video tutorials, but graphical maybe even flash-interactive presentation would certainly do good
[JZA] DanielC: the development digest was also good because it gives you a snapshot of what was going on on the OOo source-tree
[DeerBear] well, video tutorials can be made in flash
[sophie_] JZA : why don't you open a list dedicated to developers on your project, you can share experience, put up you documentation and help,
[JZA] DeerBear: I publish some video tutorials in the past.
[DanielC] JZA: I thought it was a great idea. It was a bit overwhelming, but that could be fixed with a change in presentation.
[cdriga] diane, DanielC, sophie_: Also, after the first steps using the programs indicated in the current tutorials on the site, most people experiment and find their own favourite program for CVS. For me it is IBM's Eclipse which does a bunch of other tasks, but with it CVS is very easy. Asking people on lists what CVS programs they use we can get a better list of programs to suggest and make tutorials for the major ones.
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: yes there are tools for online PO translation, but best isto use l10n soft, because they support automatic translation with Translation Memory (but then, we need a glossary translatin to have a TM :)
[diane] DanielC: yes clear and accurate instructions are important. That's huge.
[sophie_] see here what we have done : a list + some pages and IZ commitments only in french http://fr.openoffice.org/Laboratory/indexlabo.html
[DeerBear] what videos does OOo already have?
[sophie_] this help a lot of people to contribute and understand the dev process
[DanielC] DeerBear: JZA has worked on some videos for OOo.
[DanielC] Rescue: Nice to meet you, I'm Daniel Carrera :-)
[sophie_] it helps also for l10n localization, I have translated some Pavel's blog parts which are of great help
[JZA] sophie_: this is a great page, we want to activate one like that, after the business page is fully operational
[JZA] hi Charles
[sophie_] cdriga : I'm using wincvs most of the time
[AietKolkhi] sophie_: the url looks nice, though I am not fluent in French. How do you manage to do the PR in France so that OOo can be used in NGOs and schools or colleges?
[cdriga] southerncross_: !
[southerncross_] hola Alexandro!
[southerncross_] hello everybody!
[diane] cdriga: that is a good idea. I'm still too new to know there are other CVS applications out there, besides what is shown on OOo. ;)
[southerncross_] Alexandro, did you get my message?
[DeerBear] TortoiseCVS is a very good one
[JZA] AietKolkhi: I tried to pull that one in Mexico but is incredibly bureaucratic
[DeerBear] if you work in Windows
[JZA] southerncross_: yes I did, I post some announcements on the com@native-lang this week
[sophie_] AietKolkhi : by going to events, making a lot of conf, using private contacts and so on (a lot of energy but we are payed back ;)
[JZA] DeerBear: Cerverza (beer) is a good one in KDE
[AietKolkhi] JZA: I am trying to persuade Georgian Ministry of Education too, but they have not decided yet :)
[southerncross_] :JZA: thanks, I was also referring to the other parts
[southerncross_] Hello Aiet
[DeerBear] Yo hablo un poquito de espanol :D
[AietKolkhi] Hello southerncross
[DeerBear] no mucho, verdad :D
[southerncross_] I wonder who is DeerBear ?
[DeerBear] the unknown
[DeerBear] :D
[southerncross_] LOL
[DeerBear] Microsoft's spy in OOo :D
[diane] I'm using linux and use just what is there, whatever that is, on RH9. Open a terminal and go.
[southerncross_] I guessed I missed Daniel's presentation?
[sophie_] JZA : the most important is to have dev to drive the list and help people when they need, this is why I asked if you have dev gurus in you community wanted to do mentoring
[southerncross_] DeerBear: it doesn't matter much these days, being part of MS...
[AietKolkhi] southerncross: you did :) and it was a good one
[DeerBear] LOL
[DeerBear] right
[southerncross_] ok
[DeerBear] anyway
[DeerBear] Andrea Raimondi from Italy
[JZA] sophie_: right now I cant remember a name of a developer guru, most people driving the list are consultants and are very focused on OOo migrations
[southerncross_] oh, did we meet in Berlin?
[DeerBear] uhm... since I don't remember to have ever been in Berlin, I guess not
[cdriga] diane: I use linux since RH9 too... and using a JRE from Sun I could run Eclipse. But this works for windows too.
[southerncross_] ah, okay
[DeerBear] and if I was there and don't remember that would be scary
[DeerBear] :D
[southerncross_] LOL
[sophie_] JZA : If they are consultant, they are able to do develpments on OOo and are able to give back to your community in helping new developers to learn ;)
[JZA] JZA: sorry I mean implementators (consultants are usually implementators more than programmers/developers)
[diane] cdriga: Neat. I will have to google about Eclipse to learn more about it!
[sciurius] thank you, daniel!
[JZA] sophie_: they write a lot of analisys and TCO studies and things like that, and yes they do contribute
[southerncross_] in case I thank you Daniel!
[DanielC] :-)
[DanielC] thanks!
[southerncross_] to everybody here: AietKolkhi is the future Georgian Native-Lang lead
[DeerBear] I think that writing the bulk code and then have someone integrate it into the main works of OOo would be a fairly straightforward method to gain new developers without the hassle of having to learn the complexities behind the integration itself
[sophie_] JZA : ha, ok I understand
[southerncross_] DeerBear: there's an Italian guy wondering why there's no 1.1.4 in Italian on the marketing list
[DeerBear] what's 1.1.4?
[JZA] DeerBear: the version of OpenOffice.org 1.x
[southerncross_] DanielC: I thought I would not been able to make it here, but i'm like the US cavalry....
[southerncross_] :-)
[DanielC] southerncross_ :-)
[DeerBear] I have 1.1.3
[DanielC] southerncross_ : I think we should alternate times, so more people can make it over-all.
[DanielC] southerncross_: Where are you located?
[southerncross_] DanielC: yes, you're right
[southerncross_] Paris GMT+1
[DanielC] southerncross_ : What time would have been better for you?
[JZA] DanielC: I wanna move back to new york city, getting bored of Bucharest
[southerncross_] today, i'm pretty sure no Oriental members would have been able to be here now
[sophie__] sorry I've been disconnected
[JZA] wb sophie_
[DanielC] southerncross_ : We were supposed to have a couple of orientals here.
[JZA] sophie_ I wanted to ask you about your gull, a lot of people like it a lot
[DanielC] southerncross_ : It's very late in Japan, and early in Australia.
[sophie__] JZA : EIS and cws is really more easy to handle now
[DanielC] southerncross_ : I meant, US West coast... he he
[sophie__] JZA : yes, we love it too :)
[southerncross_] well, I'm sure people like Hirano_San and Jeongkyu Kim of Korea would have been interested to be here
[flop-flip] maybe there is irc log for this session?
[southerncross_] DanielC: did you know that the Chinese lead lives in Vancouver?
[DanielC] southerncross_ : What do you mean?
[JZA] sophie_ we have a spanish version of Otto, http://www.kfacts.com/oooart/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=3
[southerncross_] flop-flip: I think yes
[JZA] sophie_ it would be good to get it also on OOoArt
[southerncross_] sophie_: hi Sophie
[southerncross_] sophie_: who is AgnesB
[southerncross_] ?
[Rescue] On my day job, the best times for the world to meet are usually 0700 GMT, 1300 GMT and 2100 GMT
[DanielC] southerncross_ : AgnesB is a volunteer at OOoAuthors.org
[DanielC] southerncross_: She's a very good reviewer. :-)
[southerncross_] DanielC: todays was perfect time, but I had something else to do
[sophie__] Agnes B in France is a famous stylist ;)
[southerncross_] LOL that's why I asked
[DanielC] southerncross_ : Ok, good to know.
[AgnesB] sophie_: Hi, glad to meet you here
[southerncross_] hello AgnesB
[JZA] cdriga sophie_: what you think about getting the french otto to the OOoArt page?
[sophie__] JZA : nice one :) I'm very late to put material on art project, sorry Cristian :(
[DanielC] JZA cdriga sophie__ : +1
[AgnesB] Hello Southerncross
[sophie__] Agnes, I'm please to meet you here too :)
[southerncross_] AngesB: I never saw you on the French lists
[JZA] I also got the SVG so people can do changes and improve it
[southerncross_] JZA: thanks
[cdriga] JZA: +1, fine by me. I can create a "OOo Mascots" gallery and index there all of them
[sophie__] This is not the French Otto, this one is call SOOophie by the French community ;)
[DanielC] sophie__: he he :-)
[diane] SOOophie, that's cute!
[AgnesB] southerncross_, I'm Daniel's friend, and so I'm on an English list ;-)
[DanielC] sophie__ cdriga: Yes, a set of mascots would be nice. Otto and SOOophie can be there.
[DeerBear] where can I find a reference to plug-in development?
[sophie__] Diane : This is the vote, I'm to shy normally to allow it, but you know how is a community ;)
[AietKolkhi] Sorry for the off-topic, but I have a small Q regarding the PR of NativeLang project :)
[AietKolkhi] Does anyone have an experience in persuading schools, NGOs. governments and companies to use OOo? :-)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: I know someone who does.
[diane] sophie__: I understand shy very much. I also understand how well you are respected in the community. ;)
[southerncross_] AietKolki: FR project has a lot
[AgnesB] southerncross_: so I guess you live in France?
[AietKolkhi] southerncross: thanks.
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Ian Lynch
[southerncross_] AietKolki: but many others have: Turkish, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, etc...
[cdriga] All: I'll have to leave now. DanielC: thanks for the presentation. This ig good. Keep up the good work. Also, please save the log of this meeting at the end and post it somewhere so that we can reffer to it later on ;-)
[southerncross_] and Ian Lynch, of course for the education
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Ian is the "OOo for schools" lead.
[AietKolkhi] thanks. great, I guess I just need to get in touch with them
[DanielC] cdriga: Good idea!
[DeerBear] gee... ok, going
[DeerBear] buh bye...
[AietKolkhi] DanielC May I ask who Ian is? :)
[DanielC] cdriga: thanks for comming!
[sophie__] AietKolkhi : you can't persuade anybody imho, but demonstrating, doing a lot of talk, studying how and where they will save money and so on will help a lot
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Ian Lynch is the head of the "OpenOffice.org for schools" project. He regularly talks to schools and the UK administration about OOo.
[southerncross_] sorry I was disconnected
[AietKolkhi] Well saving money is not directly an option in Georgia, as Microsoft is "donating" its platforms and aplications to Georgian schools for free :)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: He focuses entirely on exactly what you just said.
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: thank you
[DanielC] np
[cdriga] See you later....