Conversation with #for-mar at 2006-03-10 00:50:45 on twilliams_@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(00:50:45) #for-mar: mode (+ns ) by calvino.freenode.net
(00:50:58) #for-mar: mode (+n ) by twilliams_
(00:53:18) twilliams_!n=williams@c-69-241-2-245.hsd1.ga.comcast.net: twilliams_ has changed the topic to: ForrestFriday: Locationmap, XHTML2, JIRA Clean-up...
(01:25:31) kronenpj [n=chatzill@162.192.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(01:29:07) twilliams_: hey paul
(01:29:29) kronenpj left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(01:31:34) kronenpj [n=chatzill@162.192.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(02:04:24) diwaker [n=diwaker@cpe-70-93-255-71.san.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(02:04:46) twilliams_: hey diwaker
(02:05:00) diwaker: hey tim
(02:05:49) twilliams_: glad to see you saw my message
(02:06:15) twilliams_: i would have responded but gmail is not receiving mail so i didn't have it to respond to
(02:06:54) twilliams_: i've been refreshing the mail archives to make sure my commits are actually going through
(02:17:30) diwaker: thats ok man
(02:17:34) diwaker: so where do you hail from tim?
(02:17:55) diwaker: hi kronenpj. sorry don't recognize you :-)
(02:17:58) twilliams_: atlanta, georgia, u.s.
(02:19:58) diwaker: cool. i'm in san diego.
(02:20:00) twilliams_: kronenpj == paul i thought
(02:20:44) diwaker: ah ok. yeah i haven't been able to put in time into forrest, so i'm not up-to-date with the mailing lists.
(02:36:13) diwaker left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(02:50:43) tscherler [n=thorsten@d83-180-147-33.cust.tele2.es] entered the room.
(02:50:51) tscherler: hi
(02:51:45) twilliams_: hey thorsten
(03:33:51) #for-mar: mode (+o tscherler ) by twilliams_
(03:38:43) tscherler: :) I have the power
(03:39:04) tscherler: twilliams_ will have to go now will connect soon
(03:39:22) twilliams_: ok
(03:40:11) tscherler: kronenpj I have some patches for you. Can you try for IE and give me feedback.
(03:40:21) tscherler: Please open an issue
(03:40:31) tscherler: and I will attach the patches
(03:40:33) tscherler: ok?
(03:43:20) tscherler: I mean regarding http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=114178932400001&r=1&w=2
(03:43:36) tscherler: I think I solved it but do not have windows installed ;)
(03:44:04) tscherler: I have 3 different variants and now we need to find the "good" one ;)
(03:58:51) rgardler [n=chatzill@82-69-78-226.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] entered the room.
(03:59:05) twilliams_: hi ross
(03:59:20) rgardler: Hi folks. I'm not really here right now - feeding my son, will be active in about 30 mins
(03:59:35) rgardler: Do we have logs?
(03:59:48) twilliams_: not live
(03:59:58) twilliams_: i'm committing every hour though
(04:00:09) rgardler: Cool, I'll go check them - thanks
(04:00:10) twilliams_: you haven't missed anything though, been pretty dead
(04:01:31) #for-mar: mode (+o rgardler ) by twilliams_
(04:08:10) tscherler left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(04:13:17) ***twilliams_ will be back soon
(04:19:47) rgardler: ooooohhh! I'm away for a few minutes and when I come back I'm an OP - SCARY!!!
(04:20:09) rgardler: I'm going to try and find the time to finish the LM caching stuff we dscussed last month
(04:20:22) rgardler: Starting on it now while Zeph is relatively quite
(04:27:13) tscherler [n=thorsten@242.Red-213-97-135.staticIP.rima-tde.net] entered the room.
(04:29:28) pbol [n=JTZ@dsl-210-211-103-098.sa.veridas.net] entered the room.
(04:30:15) pbol: Hi everyone.
(04:30:40) tscherler: hi
(04:31:25) tscherler: I have some patches for you. Can you try for IE and give me feedback.
(04:31:26) tscherler: (09:40:34) tscherler: Please open an issue
(04:31:26) tscherler: (09:40:44) tscherler: and I will attach the patches
(04:31:26) tscherler: (09:40:46) tscherler: ok?
(04:31:26) tscherler: (09:43:34) tscherler: I mean regarding http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=114178932400001&r=1&w=2
(04:31:26) tscherler: (09:43:49) tscherler: I think I solved it but do not have windows installed ;)
(04:31:27) tscherler: (09:44:17) tscherler: I have 3 different variants and now we need to find the "good" one ;)
(04:32:20) tscherler: I just realised that I talked to the wrong guy in the first place ;) 
(04:32:20) tscherler: Hi paul,
(04:32:20) tscherler: the above is for you
(04:32:28) nobby [n=chatzill@195.226.6.66] entered the room.
(04:34:11) rgardler: Hello everyone
(04:34:23) pbol: Sorry, slight two-year-old-eating-chocolate-cake break.
(04:34:32) rgardler: Thorsten, Tim made me an OP because he had to leave, but I am on a dodgy connection
(04:34:38) rgardler: how do I make you an op as well?
(04:35:51) rgardler: +0 thorsten
(04:35:57) rgardler: +o thorsten
(04:36:07) rgardler: (just guessing for now)
(04:36:49) rgardler:  /commands op
(04:37:34) rgardler: op thorsten
(04:37:47) #for-mar: mode (+o tscherler ) by rgardler
(04:38:03) rgardler: Ha! got it! (sorry for the noise while I experimented)
(04:39:03) tscherler: ;) gracias
(04:39:25) tscherler: what about the log
(04:40:03) pbol: Thorsten
(04:40:11) tscherler: yeah paul
(04:40:41) pbol: Does anyone have an opinion on which is the best approach to the IE issue?
(04:40:56) pbol: Approach one: add xhtml namespace
(04:41:04) tscherler: I have some
(04:41:07) tscherler: ;)
(04:41:31) pbol: Approach two: lose the XML declaration and add a meta character encoding.
(04:41:31) tscherler: Can you open the issue and I attach the some ;)
(04:41:57) pbol: Oky doke
(04:42:08) tscherler: :)
(04:42:27) rgardler: (about log) Tim said he is committing it regularly to SVN - I'm not sure if he has automated or not.
(04:43:12) tscherler: k
(04:44:03) rgardler: Hi Nobby - just wondering who you are I don't recognise the nickname
(04:44:39) nobby: hi Ross
(04:44:53) nobby: I'm Andreas Hartmann, from the Lenya project
(04:45:09) rgardler: Ahhh... welcome
(04:45:29) nobby: I just saw Thorsten joining the channel
(04:46:02) tscherler: ;)
(04:46:06) tscherler: hi nobby
(04:46:09) nobby: hi
(04:51:34) pbol: Hey Thorsten, whats the relationship between skinconf.xml  and the Dispatcher, seems to be some odd crossover behaviour.
(05:00:34) pbol: Ross, I've done the OOo patch, but it doesn't seem to work yet, so bit more work to be done. You expressed interest a while ago in an Open Document plugin, are you still inspired? 
(05:03:13) nobby left the room.
(05:14:37) _Gav_ [n=brighton@203-121-204-130.e-wire.net.au] entered the room.
(05:15:54) _Gav_: Gday All
(05:16:06) pbol: Hi Gavin
(05:16:17) tscherler: (10:51:48) pbol: Hey Thorsten, whats the relationship between skinconf.xml  and the Dispatcher, seems to be some odd crossover behaviour. ->??
(05:16:34) tscherler: the dispatcher replaces the skinconf
(05:16:54) tscherler: the current version should not need the skinconf anymore
(05:17:03) tscherler: Hi gav
(05:17:55) pbol: When I first build the Dispatcher site, about a week ago, it seemed the SVG titles were still coming out of skinconf. 
(05:18:51) pbol: I thought I should try just deleting it, but the way things went it didn't matter, I don't need those titles anyway.
(05:19:08) _Gav_: My forrest still wont work, am trying to fix it, but no luck so far.
(05:21:06) tscherler: oh pbol can you add this as well to jira I will have a look later
(05:21:15) tscherler: hmm
(05:21:18) tscherler: gav 
(05:21:36) tscherler: can you hives us a hint what was wrong?
(05:22:48) _Gav_: yep sorry, mentioned it on list the other day. Got a shiny new laptop, transferred Forrest folder to it.
(05:23:29) _Gav_: Installed JDK 1.5.06 and pointed JAVA_HOME to it, but forrest build cant find it.
(05:23:45) _Gav_: Its in the %path% also
(05:23:49) _Gav_: On Windoze
(05:31:05) _Gav_: I'll come back when done
(05:33:06) tscherler: did you follow what somebody (cannot recall who) 
(05:33:10) tscherler: java -v
(05:33:23) tscherler: echo $JAVA_HOME
(05:33:27) tscherler: said
(05:33:29) tscherler: ;)
(05:35:18) pbol: If you are just starting out with the machine I'd make sure Java isn't in Program Files, the space can cause problems. I stick all Java programs, JDK and SDK in c:
(05:35:33) pbol: --- whoops c:\Java
(05:40:11) pbol: FORREST_HOME C:\java\forrest
(05:40:31) tscherler: pbol http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-828
(05:40:38) tscherler: try v2 first ;)
(05:40:40) tscherler: thx
(05:40:48) tscherler: will lurk now
(05:41:00) pbol: JAVA_HOME C:\java\JDK
(05:41:15) pbol: seed -v2 ?
(05:44:08) tscherler: no
(05:44:19) tscherler: https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ManageAttachments.jspa?id=12330118
(05:44:24) tscherler: ie.patch.v2.diff
(05:50:08) pbol: Hmm, ok... 
(05:50:36) pbol: I have to nip out for a bit soon. 
(05:53:02) tscherler: k
(06:02:27) _Gav_: It is in Program files, will move it, thanks.
(06:35:03) _Gav_ left the room (quit: ).
(06:36:46) rgardler: Sorry folk - my plans have changed - I'm ot working on the LM caching today
(06:37:02) rgardler: In fact I'm not working on Forrest at all - more important stuff to do - sorry
(06:37:10) rgardler: exit
(06:37:19) rgardler left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]").
(06:46:30) _Gav_ [n=brighton@203-121-204-130.e-wire.net.au] entered the room.
(06:46:43) _Gav_: I m confused
(06:47:33) tscherler:  why?
(06:47:35) _Gav_: JAVA_HOME is definatly set to C:/Java/jdk/etc
(06:47:43) tscherler: etc?
(06:48:02) _Gav_: sorry, cant remember full path
(06:48:10) tscherler: echo $JAVA_HOME
(06:48:18) tscherler: /home/thorsten/opt/java
(06:48:33) tscherler: where /home/thorsten/opt/java points to
(06:48:49) tscherler: ./j2sdk1.4.2_08/
(06:49:04) tscherler: meaning you need to refer to top level
(06:49:08) tscherler: what does give
(06:49:26) _Gav_: C:\Java\Java\jdk1.5.0_06\bin
(06:49:29) tscherler: java -version
(06:49:52) tscherler: well bin should be in the PATH
(06:49:59) _Gav_: Forrest is still looking for it in C:\Program Files\Java\Jre
(06:50:13) _Gav_: It is in the path
(06:50:36) tscherler: do echo $PATH
(06:50:39) tscherler: please
(06:52:26) ***twilliams_ back from a nap
(06:52:31) _Gav_: C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI Control Panel;d:\Apache2\Forrest\bin;D:\Apache2\Ant\bin;D:\Programs\Subversion\bin;C:\Java\Java\jdk1.5.0_06\bin
(06:53:02) tscherler: and $JAVA_HOME
(06:53:14) tscherler: i mean echo $JAVA_HOME
(06:53:43) _Gav_: C:\Java\Java\jdk1.5.0_06\bin
(06:53:53) tscherler: set
(06:53:58) _Gav_: Never had this problem on old lappy
(06:54:00) tscherler: JAVA_HOME
(06:54:03) tscherler: to
(06:54:07) tscherler: C:\Java\Java\jdk1.5.0_06
(06:54:08) tscherler: !!!
(06:54:29) tscherler: and try again
(06:54:59) tscherler: can be you need to restart. ASAIR windoof does not directly use the new settingd
(06:55:30) _Gav_: will give it a go
(06:55:36) tscherler: k
(06:59:23) twilliams_: btw, ant -diagnostics is a pretty good command
(06:59:47) _Gav_: well b!!ger me, compiled, 1 error regarding deprecated avalon framework something
(06:59:58) _Gav_: but built ok
(06:59:59) _Gav_: thanks
(07:05:31) tscherler: ;)
(07:05:37) tscherler: de nada
(07:08:55) _Gav_: spending all its time looking for plugins.xml now from apache.org
(07:09:11) _Gav_: do I need to alter any settings
(07:09:30) _Gav_: forrest.apache.org
(07:12:26) twilliams_: settings for what?
(07:13:51) _Gav_: unable to retrive org.apache.forrest.themes.core plugin
(07:14:20) twilliams_: suggest you follow the Quickstart doc 
(07:14:23) _Gav_: so i need to ant local deploy again
(07:14:31) twilliams_: it walks you through local-deploy
(07:15:14) _Gav_: s'ok, I had dispatcher site running on old comp, just need to tweak a few things again on new one
(07:17:34) _Gav_: unexpected element 'import' , what does that mean!
(07:17:49) twilliams_: yeah, i'm just saying walk through it to make sure you're tweaking everything that needs it
(07:17:50) twilliams_: http://forrest.apache.org/docs_0_80/howto/howto-dispatcher-quickstart.html
(07:18:28) _Gav_: thanks
(07:30:16) _Gav_: now pointing to correct version of ant, error is gone - getting there.
(07:35:50) _Gav_: cool, rc1 up n running again
(07:36:06) _Gav_: did someone cure the round corners problem again
(07:36:28) _Gav_: round corners were not working for me last time I opened dispatcher
(07:36:53) _Gav_: maybe the spelling mistake patch cured it.
(07:38:05) tscherler: well www.target-x.de/search.html
(07:38:19) tscherler: is using round bottom images
(07:38:27) tscherler: so yeah it is working just fine
(07:38:52) tscherler: and the spelling had nothing to do with it 
(07:39:11) tscherler: that was for accessing the request and its extension
(07:39:42) _Gav_: ok, works for me too, just wondered where the solution came from, because it was not working 2 weeks ago
(07:40:44) _Gav_: anyway, enough noise from me, Im back to square one so I can do something
(07:45:02) _Gav_: I should try and get the footer logos back onto one line again.
(07:45:45) _Gav_: Is there anything else pelt theme needs to mirror pelt skin?
(07:55:21) tscherler: IMO no
(07:58:18) _Gav_: are the site-info credits still on 2 lines for you
(07:58:31) tscherler: sorry busy ATM
(07:58:34) tscherler:  ut no
(07:58:57) tscherler: I Believe I can recall that it is fixed
(08:03:10) pbol: Hey Gavin
(08:04:53) pbol: If you're using Win there's a great little shell extension called 'open command window here' - free from Bill himself I believe. It's really handy if you are ant local-deploying and building in lots of directories.
(08:07:20) _Gav_: Got a URL, I just svn up'ed, and getting fed up of ant local-deploying several directories, was just about to write a bat file
(08:09:55) pbol: I use that and the context menu to open files in Jedit a lot when doing Forrest stuff. Wish I knew how to turn off that stupid 'do you want to use web services...' dialogue though. Has that ever worked for anyone?
(08:10:54) twilliams_: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
(08:11:03) tscherler: argh
(08:11:04) twilliams_: right side... Open Command window here
(08:11:28) twilliams_: please, write the batch file though;)
(08:11:35) tscherler: just use linux dudes ;)
(08:11:55) twilliams_: i have to spin around in my chair for that;)
(08:12:24) twilliams_: this is my for-pay box; that's my for-play box
(08:13:25) tscherler: jeje
(08:13:45) tscherler: actually giving up windows, I actually gave up gaming on the pc
(08:13:53) tscherler: I have now a PS" ;)
(08:14:00) tscherler: ps2 I mean
(08:14:10) _Gav_: tim > will do
(08:15:01) _Gav_: thorsten > linux, what flavor do you use
(08:15:09) tscherler: ubuntu
(08:15:14) tscherler: debian based
(08:15:23) ***twilliams_ fedora
(08:15:26) tscherler: debian rocks 
(08:15:36) twilliams_: fedora works;)
(08:15:41) tscherler: jeje
(08:16:27) _Gav_: I have fedora 4 on disk, will try that (on a spare box first)
(08:29:47) _Gav_ left the room (quit: ).
(08:29:53) kronenpj: G-Morning folks...
(08:31:08) twilliams_: good morning
(08:38:38) pbol: Hey Thorsten, those patches don't seem to do the trick, IE seems to need 
(08:38:44) pbol: oops
(08:39:48) pbol: <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html, charset=UTF-8">
(08:40:57) pbol: Just did an experiment, IE does't care about the <?XML... but can't understand the character encoding within.
(08:43:35) tscherler: hmm
(08:43:46) tscherler: stupid ie ;)
(08:44:05) tscherler: but adding <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html, charset=UTF-8"> solves it?
(08:44:37) tscherler: I extended the meta data contract you can pass this via the structurer
(08:44:41) tscherler: can you try
(09:02:30) pbol: Stupid ie indeed. 
(09:04:45) pbol: Bear in mind, though, NS4.79 was a good deal stupider in it's own way. 
(09:05:33) pbol: I hate to think what Netscape 4 would make of these pages....
(09:15:16) pbol: Ok, think I get the picture. When I work out which one I'll do a patch.
(09:18:03) kronenpj: tscherler - I can try patches...  Are they in SVN?
(09:18:25) kronenpj: pbol - NS4 really tortures pages generated by Forrest...  I've tried.
(09:20:58) pbol: Not as much as it tortures designers..
(09:21:11) kronenpj: :)
(09:22:28) pbol: But it's always a shock to the system checking something on IE - I'm so used to Firefox (with web developer), so easy to use in comparison.
(09:23:36) tscherler: https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ManageAttachments.jspa?id=12330118
(09:23:46) tscherler: kronenpj
(09:24:03) tscherler: I confused you with pbol ;)
(09:24:06) tscherler: sorry
(09:24:11) tscherler: but feel free to try
(09:24:17) pbol: Thorsten - have you given any thought to native SVG from Forrest?
(09:24:34) tscherler: if we find a solution it should go into the file patch 
(09:24:55) tscherler: yeah in theory (!) that should work out of the box ;)
(09:24:58) pbol: re encoding: yes, certainly. 
(09:25:27) pbol: Que? but doesn't Forrest automatically convert to png?
(09:25:28) tscherler: but we cannot set a fixed encoding though
(09:25:40) tscherler: jeje not with the dispatcher if you do not want
(09:25:42) tscherler: ;)
(09:25:51) tscherler: you can add svg contracts
(09:26:03) tscherler: and then use them in the struturer
(09:26:07) pbol: arrg, I'm getting confused..
(09:26:18) tscherler: remember the structurer defines multiple formats
(09:26:36) tscherler: then you request scg directly and include it in your page
(09:26:46) tscherler: svg I mean
(09:27:04) tscherler: it is a questio of implementing it
(09:27:20) tscherler: I can wrap up an example at home (in about 2-3 hours
(09:27:23) pbol: wouldn't it be good to have a 'don't convert, I'm ok with native' function? 
(09:27:39) tscherler: well that is using
(09:27:44) tscherler: *.png
(09:27:45) tscherler: or
(09:27:48) tscherler: *.svg
(09:28:13) tscherler: when *.png and there is a svg then it got transformed
(09:28:27) tscherler: when *svg it got deliverd directly
(09:28:27) pbol: yep, with browser detection to determine which is required
(09:28:33) tscherler: well
(09:28:55) tscherler: the browser detection is another step ;)
(09:29:25) pbol: but until all browsers do native svg it's a necessary evil
(09:29:42) tscherler: jeje
(09:29:44) tscherler: well
(09:30:04) tscherler: it is like using flash on your site
(09:30:13) tscherler: some people have it some not
(09:30:29) tscherler: ATM you will need to have two version
(09:30:46) tscherler: but one can activate it relatively easy
(09:30:51) pbol: but svg has the potential to offer both a 'rich' (to use bill's terminology) svg experience, and a text only from the same docs - beats flash hands down.
(09:31:06) tscherler: totally agrree
(09:31:21) tscherler: like said it is a matter of implementation ;)
(09:32:44) pbol: I think it's certainly worth considering as a next step for Forrest - svg has really only just arrived, and Forrest is in a lot of ways an ideal tool to serve it up.
(09:34:16) pbol: on a much more mundane note, where are the PDF converters. I need to modify the header of my PDF output docs.
(09:37:35) pbol: I'm off to bed, just after midnight here.
(09:38:54) tscherler: k
(09:38:57) tscherler: cu
(09:39:25) tscherler: maybe I can make something and you have something to play when you wake up
(09:44:37) kronenpj: tscherler: Ah, understood.  Having two Paul's in a group can be confusing.
(09:44:51) kronenpj: Since I don't know if I'm having that problem I can't really test it.   Sorry.
(10:05:08) tscherler: k
(11:08:48) tscherler: will come back later
(11:08:51) tscherler: cu u all
(11:09:04) twilliams_: bye thorsten
(11:09:26) tscherler: cu tim
(11:09:36) tscherler: nice job you are doing
(11:09:40) tscherler: thanks for that
(11:09:59) twilliams_: it makes me nervous when i'm the only op -- i'd never considered that before;)
(11:10:04) twilliams_: thanks though
(11:10:24) tscherler: no worries in around an hour I will be back ;)
(11:10:41) twilliams_: cu then...
(11:10:51) tscherler left the room.
(12:22:27) tscherler [n=thorsten@d83-180-147-33.cust.tele2.es] entered the room.
(12:22:35) tscherler: re
(12:26:41) twilliams_: welcome back mr. scherler
(12:26:56) #for-mar: mode (+o tscherler ) by twilliams_
(12:44:17) tscherler: ;)
(12:54:33) kronenpj left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(15:44:48) tscherler: oh man 3 hours of writing the answer
(15:44:58) tscherler: I will have a beer right now
(15:45:31) tscherler: writing about it made me thirsty ;)
(15:45:33) tscherler: later
(15:45:45) tscherler is now known as target-away
(16:40:22) target-away is now known as tscherler
(23:30:07) pbol left the room.
(23:31:21) pbol [n=JTZ@dsl-210-211-103-098.sa.veridas.net] entered the room.
(00:25:28) pbol: Anyone there?
(01:36:38) twilliams_: I'm here now Paul
(01:37:02) twilliams_: let this run about 30 min too long
(01:38:45) pbol: Not much action for a bit,,,
(01:38:57) twilliams_: yeah, was a slow FF
(01:39:11) twilliams_: reckon everyone had other stuff to tend to today
(01:39:33) twilliams_: thanks for sticking around, i'll be shutting down now
(01:39:52) pbol: Ok, see you on the list
(01:39:57) #for-mar: mode (-o tscherler ) by twilliams_
(01:40:07) twilliams_: no offense thorsten;)
(01:40:15) pbol: Did anyone log this?
(01:40:36) twilliams_: yeah, i did, it's been committing every hour
(01:41:00) twilliams_: no one had a live log with one of those silly log stats though
(01:41:03) pbol: I'd better not say anything controversial then.
(01:44:04) twilliams_: awww shucks, why not?
(01:45:11) twilliams_: i'm listening;)
(01:46:16) twilliams_: i'm about to shut this thing down now though
(01:46:34) twilliams_: i'm off to bed
(01:47:55) twilliams_: good night/morning/afternoon to all and thanks for participating in another Forrest Friday!
(01:48:06) twilliams_: Good Bye...